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javajedi
Oct 11, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by ddtlm
javajedi:
Admittedly I am getting lost in what all the numbers people have mentioned are for, but looking at these numbers you have here and assuming that they are doing the same task, you can rest assured that the G3/G4 are running far inferior software. AltiVec and SSE2 or not, there is just nothing that can explain this difference other than an unfair playing field. There is no task that a P4 can do 11x or 12x the speed of a G4 (comparing top-end models here). The P4 posseses nothing that runs at 11x or 12x the speed. Not the clock, not the units, the bandwidth to memory and caches are not 11x or 12x as good, it is not 11x better at branch prediction. I absolutely refuse to accept these results without very substantial backing because they contradict reality as I know it. I know a lot about the P4 and the G4, and I know a lot about programming in a fair number of different languages, even some assembly. I insist that these results do not reflect the actual performance of the processors, until irrefutable proof is presented to show how they do.
I guess the 70 and 90 don't surprise me a lot for the G3/G4, depending on clock speed difference. But all this trendy wandwagon-esque G4-bashing is not correct just cause every one else is doing it. There are things about the G3 that are very nice, but the G4 is no slouch compared to it, and given the higher clock that it's pipeline allows, the G3 really can't keep up. The G4 not only sports a better standard FPU, but it also sports better integer units.
Keep in mind this test does not reflect balanced system performance. The point of this exercise has been to determine how the G4's FPU compares to an assortment of different processors and operating systems.
I'd like to know you you qualify "inferior software" on the x86. If the P4 is some how cheating, then all of the other processors are cheating as well. Again, we ran the exact same code. We even made it into C code on the mac for maximum speed. In fact I'd like for you to check the code out for yourself, so you can see there is no misdirection here. Keep in mind, other people here have ran it on Athlons in Linux and still get sub 10 second times. I've also had a friend of mine (who i can trust) run it under Yellow Dog on a G4, he got 100+ seconds. And I did not tell him the scores we've been getting on the Mac, I had him run the test first and tell me how long it took before I even said anything. The JRE and now Mac OS X have been factored out of this equation.
When you look at operations like these, for example scalar integer ops, that's all register. The fsb, bsb, or anything else doesn't matter. This is a direct comparison between the two units on the G4 vs everything else. Also, my question to you is, in what way are the integer and fpu units "better" in the G4? I did not build the chip so I can't say weather they are better or not better than those in the 750FX, but I can say I've ran a fair benchmark comparing the FPU on the G4 from everything to a P4, Athlon, C3, G3, different operating systems, on x86 Windows and Linux, and on the Mac, Mac OS X and Yellow Dog. The results are consistent across the board. What more "proof" do you want?
javajedi:
Admittedly I am getting lost in what all the numbers people have mentioned are for, but looking at these numbers you have here and assuming that they are doing the same task, you can rest assured that the G3/G4 are running far inferior software. AltiVec and SSE2 or not, there is just nothing that can explain this difference other than an unfair playing field. There is no task that a P4 can do 11x or 12x the speed of a G4 (comparing top-end models here). The P4 posseses nothing that runs at 11x or 12x the speed. Not the clock, not the units, the bandwidth to memory and caches are not 11x or 12x as good, it is not 11x better at branch prediction. I absolutely refuse to accept these results without very substantial backing because they contradict reality as I know it. I know a lot about the P4 and the G4, and I know a lot about programming in a fair number of different languages, even some assembly. I insist that these results do not reflect the actual performance of the processors, until irrefutable proof is presented to show how they do.
I guess the 70 and 90 don't surprise me a lot for the G3/G4, depending on clock speed difference. But all this trendy wandwagon-esque G4-bashing is not correct just cause every one else is doing it. There are things about the G3 that are very nice, but the G4 is no slouch compared to it, and given the higher clock that it's pipeline allows, the G3 really can't keep up. The G4 not only sports a better standard FPU, but it also sports better integer units.
Keep in mind this test does not reflect balanced system performance. The point of this exercise has been to determine how the G4's FPU compares to an assortment of different processors and operating systems.
I'd like to know you you qualify "inferior software" on the x86. If the P4 is some how cheating, then all of the other processors are cheating as well. Again, we ran the exact same code. We even made it into C code on the mac for maximum speed. In fact I'd like for you to check the code out for yourself, so you can see there is no misdirection here. Keep in mind, other people here have ran it on Athlons in Linux and still get sub 10 second times. I've also had a friend of mine (who i can trust) run it under Yellow Dog on a G4, he got 100+ seconds. And I did not tell him the scores we've been getting on the Mac, I had him run the test first and tell me how long it took before I even said anything. The JRE and now Mac OS X have been factored out of this equation.
When you look at operations like these, for example scalar integer ops, that's all register. The fsb, bsb, or anything else doesn't matter. This is a direct comparison between the two units on the G4 vs everything else. Also, my question to you is, in what way are the integer and fpu units "better" in the G4? I did not build the chip so I can't say weather they are better or not better than those in the 750FX, but I can say I've ran a fair benchmark comparing the FPU on the G4 from everything to a P4, Athlon, C3, G3, different operating systems, on x86 Windows and Linux, and on the Mac, Mac OS X and Yellow Dog. The results are consistent across the board. What more "proof" do you want?
csjo00
Jun 9, 05:18 PM
Only time I've ever had a dropped call with AT&T is when the Wakarusa people come in to the area.
(Wakarusa is a huge festival 10 miles from where I live that increases the population of our county of ~8,000 to close to ~30,000. And it kills cell service.)
(Wakarusa is a huge festival 10 miles from where I live that increases the population of our county of ~8,000 to close to ~30,000. And it kills cell service.)
crees!
Aug 29, 11:46 AM
Greenpeace can suck my left toe.
bruinsrme
Apr 23, 12:46 PM
Blue..... Thank you for the taking the time to share those tips.....
nagromme
Jul 14, 02:28 PM
A new case would be "fun" but what I care about is what it delivers, not how it looks when I crawl under my desk :)
For the low-end (single chip) towers, dual core Conroe makes more sense to me than Xeon, simply for cost reasons. (Though I'm eyeing the new Xeons for my first ever top-end Mac... with dual-duals!)
Two optical slots would be nice, allowing me to "wait and see" about next-gen optical formats.
My intention: to wait for 3Ghz+ Xeon, which sounds like it should only be a few months later. That's also time for a few little tweaks to be made if necessary, giving me something between a version A and version B machine.
I suspect we'll see a lot of reviews and benchmarks giving a bad cost to value ratio for the Macs.
Without a doubt. And in keeping with long tradition, the "less expensive" name-brand PC will mysteriously come with less (ports, software, even speed if Netburst lingers) than the Mac :)
For the low-end (single chip) towers, dual core Conroe makes more sense to me than Xeon, simply for cost reasons. (Though I'm eyeing the new Xeons for my first ever top-end Mac... with dual-duals!)
Two optical slots would be nice, allowing me to "wait and see" about next-gen optical formats.
My intention: to wait for 3Ghz+ Xeon, which sounds like it should only be a few months later. That's also time for a few little tweaks to be made if necessary, giving me something between a version A and version B machine.
I suspect we'll see a lot of reviews and benchmarks giving a bad cost to value ratio for the Macs.
Without a doubt. And in keeping with long tradition, the "less expensive" name-brand PC will mysteriously come with less (ports, software, even speed if Netburst lingers) than the Mac :)
G5isAlive
Mar 18, 07:36 AM
What exactly about "unlimited" don't people understand? Without limits.
actually there was a limit. single person. not tethering. anything else is in fact breaking the agreement.
actually there was a limit. single person. not tethering. anything else is in fact breaking the agreement.
Gurutech
Jul 12, 01:12 PM
Pentium D has horrid heat output. :)
Yonah is a laptop chip yet it is in Apple's desktop iMac. :)
Anyway...
The Merom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors#endnote_MeromSpeculation) has a TDP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_Design_Point) of 35 W and the Conroe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors#endnote_ConroeSpeculation) has a TDP of 65 W (or 80 W for the X6xxx) ...and that isn't counting the difference in heat produced by the chipset (Apple is using a laptop chipset in the Intel iMac).
So the question is can Apple use a chip and chipset that will have a peak thermal load that is likely more then double (if they used Conroe) what is in the current Intel iMac (the Yonah has a TDP around 27 W). Also in theory the Conroe should come out a little cheaper then a Merom based system because of volume and binning.
Likely they can (given the iMac contained a G5 at one point, granted low clock rate) but it will come at the cost of more constant use of fans.
Apple could go either way on this...
Sure can.
I believe the max TDP of G5 processor is something like 80 W.
more like +- 60 W
If they can put that BURNING G5 into iMac, why not the Conroe?
Putting 65 W hot processor in iMac enclosure isn't that difficult.
Yonah is a laptop chip yet it is in Apple's desktop iMac. :)
Anyway...
The Merom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors#endnote_MeromSpeculation) has a TDP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_Design_Point) of 35 W and the Conroe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors#endnote_ConroeSpeculation) has a TDP of 65 W (or 80 W for the X6xxx) ...and that isn't counting the difference in heat produced by the chipset (Apple is using a laptop chipset in the Intel iMac).
So the question is can Apple use a chip and chipset that will have a peak thermal load that is likely more then double (if they used Conroe) what is in the current Intel iMac (the Yonah has a TDP around 27 W). Also in theory the Conroe should come out a little cheaper then a Merom based system because of volume and binning.
Likely they can (given the iMac contained a G5 at one point, granted low clock rate) but it will come at the cost of more constant use of fans.
Apple could go either way on this...
Sure can.
I believe the max TDP of G5 processor is something like 80 W.
more like +- 60 W
If they can put that BURNING G5 into iMac, why not the Conroe?
Putting 65 W hot processor in iMac enclosure isn't that difficult.
mixel
Apr 10, 06:27 AM
1. Define a proper game. I think there are a lot of proper games on iOS. But I think I get your point. Do you mean hardcore? Halo, elder scrolls, call of duty etc.
I sort-of mean hardcore, though I think thats a wonky label too.. There are quite a lot of "hardcore" RPGs on iOS already. I mean games with decent budgets and a sizeable team working on them. The vast majority of the >$100 billion games industry works that way.. Metal Gears, Silent Hills, God of Wars, Halos, Resistances, Fables, Killzones, Gears Of Wars, Half-lifes, Portals, L4Ds, Elder Scrolls, Witchers, Crysises, Zeldas, Shadow Of The Colluseses, Resident Evils.. The hardware is more than capable of having incredible titles, but the devs just wont give it a proper go. What are our true iOS classics? Any dedicated console at this point in its lifespan would have a load of them.
It was neat when we got the Dead Space spin-off but the big boys have really only dipped their toes into iOS without truly committing yet.
I do agree though there are a lot of proper games on iOS, just not high profile ones that would attract many outsiders. I love small and indie games and the experimentation they offer.. Its not a failure to not have the big support IMO it's just playing a different ball game.
2. What do you mean make a legitimate threat? I would bet money there are more iDevices in peoples homes and hands than Nintendo or Sony devices (of similar purposes) I watched a friends kid for a week in January while she was on a business trip. The kid loved his DS to death. For Christmas he got an iPad. He didn't even know where his DS was anymore, it was old news. Plus when apple has enough money to buy either company out, I think that makes them a legitimate threat.
Not to traditional gamers really. Apple aren't going to buy either company, and both companies are still offering a whole tier of game quality above what iOS currently offers. Only once the developers start seeing iOS as a real standalone gaming platform and not a curious aside for drumming up publicity for their true AAA titles will it appeal to most gamers.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/40635/Global-games-market-worth-over-100bn - tbh devs seem much more keen on funnelling development resources into supporting Facebook/social gaming than iOS, which is pretty sad. Look how small the mobile section is compared to others. :(
I'd love to see Apple's future plans regarding the games industry.
I sort-of mean hardcore, though I think thats a wonky label too.. There are quite a lot of "hardcore" RPGs on iOS already. I mean games with decent budgets and a sizeable team working on them. The vast majority of the >$100 billion games industry works that way.. Metal Gears, Silent Hills, God of Wars, Halos, Resistances, Fables, Killzones, Gears Of Wars, Half-lifes, Portals, L4Ds, Elder Scrolls, Witchers, Crysises, Zeldas, Shadow Of The Colluseses, Resident Evils.. The hardware is more than capable of having incredible titles, but the devs just wont give it a proper go. What are our true iOS classics? Any dedicated console at this point in its lifespan would have a load of them.
It was neat when we got the Dead Space spin-off but the big boys have really only dipped their toes into iOS without truly committing yet.
I do agree though there are a lot of proper games on iOS, just not high profile ones that would attract many outsiders. I love small and indie games and the experimentation they offer.. Its not a failure to not have the big support IMO it's just playing a different ball game.
2. What do you mean make a legitimate threat? I would bet money there are more iDevices in peoples homes and hands than Nintendo or Sony devices (of similar purposes) I watched a friends kid for a week in January while she was on a business trip. The kid loved his DS to death. For Christmas he got an iPad. He didn't even know where his DS was anymore, it was old news. Plus when apple has enough money to buy either company out, I think that makes them a legitimate threat.
Not to traditional gamers really. Apple aren't going to buy either company, and both companies are still offering a whole tier of game quality above what iOS currently offers. Only once the developers start seeing iOS as a real standalone gaming platform and not a curious aside for drumming up publicity for their true AAA titles will it appeal to most gamers.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/40635/Global-games-market-worth-over-100bn - tbh devs seem much more keen on funnelling development resources into supporting Facebook/social gaming than iOS, which is pretty sad. Look how small the mobile section is compared to others. :(
I'd love to see Apple's future plans regarding the games industry.
okboy
Apr 8, 11:10 PM
Velly Intelrsting. Did they start out making games from rocks?
:eek:
Cards games, man... they had more than rocks 122 years ago... wow.
Why doesnt Apple allow you to plug a controller in the 30 pin adaptor? Wouldnt that be the best of both worlds?
I don't see why you couldn't. There's always Bluetooth ones anyway ( http://icontrolpad.com/ ). Apple Stores also sell the Fling analog sticks now.
:eek:
Cards games, man... they had more than rocks 122 years ago... wow.
Why doesnt Apple allow you to plug a controller in the 30 pin adaptor? Wouldnt that be the best of both worlds?
I don't see why you couldn't. There's always Bluetooth ones anyway ( http://icontrolpad.com/ ). Apple Stores also sell the Fling analog sticks now.
MacQuest
Jul 12, 09:00 AM
I think AppleInsider is slightly wrong on this.
http://images.appleinsider.com/charts-potential-pairings-0.gif
Mac mini:
- Apple will probably keep 32-bit Yonah chips in the Mac mini at least until 10.5 ships, but probably until MacWorld '07, AND drop the prices back down to $499 and $699 once Merom comes out in the next couple of months. This will spur Mac mini sales for the holiday season. At MacWorld [or maybe slightly before MW, during the holiday season if Merom chips get a price drop by then], the Mac mini will get Merom to take full advantage of 10.5 and slaughter the windows media center market and reign supreme in the media hub capacity [come on Apple, at least give it TV viewing capabilities even if you're not gonna give it PVR functionality because that may screw up the iMovie Video store that you're gonna announce with the vPod by Apple Expo Paris in September ;)]. Everybody's "gonna NEED 64-bit" by then... :rolleyes:... even though they really won't and don't even know why they would need it, other than because of the fact that it exists.
MacBook
- Like the Mac mini, the MacBook will keep Yonah only until 10.5 ships, but probably until MacWorld '07.
I think MacWorld will be SJ's chance to say "6 months ago we completed our transition to Intel chips, a full 6 months ahead of the schedule that we had announced at WWDC in '05. During this past holiday season we shipped Mac OS X 10.5. Today we are proud to announce that ALL Macs have 64-bit Intel chips/processors and will be able to take FULL advantage of Mac OS X 10.5's features. One more thing..." /MacPhone [smartphone Blackberry/Treo killer with Apple's own MVNO service, and more. ;)]
iMac
- [i]May use Merom, but Conroe is likely after the Mac mini gets Merom late this year or at MW '07. Both the 17" & 20" will probably get stock x1800 256VRam [x1900 BTO], and the 17" will get speed bumped to at least 2.0Ghz [duh...] and the 20" will get 2.16, maybe 2.33Ghz [in which case the 17" will probably get 2.16] but I don't know if Apple will debut the 2.33 in a consumer Mac before a Pro Mac. I'll expect to see all of this right after WWDC [although the iMacs right at the 6 month mark NOW, so maybe before WWDC. Right now I think Apple's building up anticipation for it's desktops
[b]"Mac [Whatever]" or just "Mac" - light-upgrader/gamer targeted, new tower [probably mini-tower, compared to Mac Pro], possibly non-aluminum enclosure to differentiate it from the Mac Pro and maybe match the consumer MacBook's enclosures .
- This will be Apple's flagship Conroe powered Mac. This is why the iMac [i]may stay with Merom, because this may be used as a distinguishing factor from the iMac. Although I believe that this towers' upgradeability option will be enough! :D There will probably be a an entry level with a 2.4Ghz [2.6, 2.8 BTO option] Conroe Core Duo and x1800 256VRam model around the $1000 [probably $1100, but $999 would KILL ALL of the windows desktop pc's sales] price point. An upgraded 2.6Ghz [2.8 BTO option] Conroe Core Duo model, with an x1900 256VRam GPU, larger hard drive, etc. will be at the $1500 price point [$1499].
$999 & $1399/$1499 would RULE, because we would finally have an "under $1000 tower Mac" that could compete with those sub-$1000 windows towers. We'll probably get $1099 and $1499 though, which is still GREAT, but I just wish Apple would hit that $999 mark for buyers' "psychological" reasons though.
Apple has NO need to go into the junky "$800 or less" tower trenches with it's tower Macs, and won't.
MacBook Pro
I agree with AI.
Mac Pro
I agree with AI.
Xserve
WILL NOT USE WOODCREST!!!
CORE 2 DUAL QUAD OCTA CORE MAC's starting with DUAL TIGERTON'S, later replaced with CORE 2 SINGLE OCTA CORE HARPERTOWN [obviously will be paired up to bring us a 16 CORE CORE 2 DUAL OCTA CORE HARPERTOWN, that will obviously later be replaced with 32 CORE... YES, 32 CORE!!!, DUNINGTON's...
j/k... I agree with AI. Woodcrest in Mac Pro... :p
FUTURE OUTLOOK
Single Core 2 quad core "Kentsfield" [dual "Conroe" Core Duo's] in January. Don't know if we'll see those in the new consumer "Mac" tower though. Probably not.
However, dual Core 2 Core Quad/Quattro[?] "Tigerton's" [dual "Woodcrest" Core Quadro's/Quattros?] should bring us the first... drumroll please...
Core 2 OCTA Core Mac Pro's & Xserves in '07 though :D
:confused: ... just shoot me... ;)
http://images.appleinsider.com/charts-potential-pairings-0.gif
Mac mini:
- Apple will probably keep 32-bit Yonah chips in the Mac mini at least until 10.5 ships, but probably until MacWorld '07, AND drop the prices back down to $499 and $699 once Merom comes out in the next couple of months. This will spur Mac mini sales for the holiday season. At MacWorld [or maybe slightly before MW, during the holiday season if Merom chips get a price drop by then], the Mac mini will get Merom to take full advantage of 10.5 and slaughter the windows media center market and reign supreme in the media hub capacity [come on Apple, at least give it TV viewing capabilities even if you're not gonna give it PVR functionality because that may screw up the iMovie Video store that you're gonna announce with the vPod by Apple Expo Paris in September ;)]. Everybody's "gonna NEED 64-bit" by then... :rolleyes:... even though they really won't and don't even know why they would need it, other than because of the fact that it exists.
MacBook
- Like the Mac mini, the MacBook will keep Yonah only until 10.5 ships, but probably until MacWorld '07.
I think MacWorld will be SJ's chance to say "6 months ago we completed our transition to Intel chips, a full 6 months ahead of the schedule that we had announced at WWDC in '05. During this past holiday season we shipped Mac OS X 10.5. Today we are proud to announce that ALL Macs have 64-bit Intel chips/processors and will be able to take FULL advantage of Mac OS X 10.5's features. One more thing..." /MacPhone [smartphone Blackberry/Treo killer with Apple's own MVNO service, and more. ;)]
iMac
- [i]May use Merom, but Conroe is likely after the Mac mini gets Merom late this year or at MW '07. Both the 17" & 20" will probably get stock x1800 256VRam [x1900 BTO], and the 17" will get speed bumped to at least 2.0Ghz [duh...] and the 20" will get 2.16, maybe 2.33Ghz [in which case the 17" will probably get 2.16] but I don't know if Apple will debut the 2.33 in a consumer Mac before a Pro Mac. I'll expect to see all of this right after WWDC [although the iMacs right at the 6 month mark NOW, so maybe before WWDC. Right now I think Apple's building up anticipation for it's desktops
[b]"Mac [Whatever]" or just "Mac" - light-upgrader/gamer targeted, new tower [probably mini-tower, compared to Mac Pro], possibly non-aluminum enclosure to differentiate it from the Mac Pro and maybe match the consumer MacBook's enclosures .
- This will be Apple's flagship Conroe powered Mac. This is why the iMac [i]may stay with Merom, because this may be used as a distinguishing factor from the iMac. Although I believe that this towers' upgradeability option will be enough! :D There will probably be a an entry level with a 2.4Ghz [2.6, 2.8 BTO option] Conroe Core Duo and x1800 256VRam model around the $1000 [probably $1100, but $999 would KILL ALL of the windows desktop pc's sales] price point. An upgraded 2.6Ghz [2.8 BTO option] Conroe Core Duo model, with an x1900 256VRam GPU, larger hard drive, etc. will be at the $1500 price point [$1499].
$999 & $1399/$1499 would RULE, because we would finally have an "under $1000 tower Mac" that could compete with those sub-$1000 windows towers. We'll probably get $1099 and $1499 though, which is still GREAT, but I just wish Apple would hit that $999 mark for buyers' "psychological" reasons though.
Apple has NO need to go into the junky "$800 or less" tower trenches with it's tower Macs, and won't.
MacBook Pro
I agree with AI.
Mac Pro
I agree with AI.
Xserve
WILL NOT USE WOODCREST!!!
CORE 2 DUAL QUAD OCTA CORE MAC's starting with DUAL TIGERTON'S, later replaced with CORE 2 SINGLE OCTA CORE HARPERTOWN [obviously will be paired up to bring us a 16 CORE CORE 2 DUAL OCTA CORE HARPERTOWN, that will obviously later be replaced with 32 CORE... YES, 32 CORE!!!, DUNINGTON's...
j/k... I agree with AI. Woodcrest in Mac Pro... :p
FUTURE OUTLOOK
Single Core 2 quad core "Kentsfield" [dual "Conroe" Core Duo's] in January. Don't know if we'll see those in the new consumer "Mac" tower though. Probably not.
However, dual Core 2 Core Quad/Quattro[?] "Tigerton's" [dual "Woodcrest" Core Quadro's/Quattros?] should bring us the first... drumroll please...
Core 2 OCTA Core Mac Pro's & Xserves in '07 though :D
:confused: ... just shoot me... ;)
Popeye206
Apr 9, 11:35 AM
I do think the market can sustain 4 companies, perhaps even especially the casual market which is significantly larger. I would challenge you to answer why you think the smaller top-end console market can sustain 2 large players, but the broader casual market could not?
Unless Apple pulls a rabbit out of it's hat with Gaming, I'd think that iOS games would be more geared towards families and multiplayer... but not at the same level as something like Halo on XBox, but more like the Nitendo Wii games.
Given this, I think the systems that need to worry is Playstation (they've been having their own issues) and Nitendo given iOS games could easily take on the Nitendo market.
However, what's to say that Nitendo couldn't port some more popular games to iOS? It would be a killer combo and would expand their revenue stream to what could be a huge competitor.
IMHO, I think Nitendo should be talking to Apple and make it happen.
Unless Apple pulls a rabbit out of it's hat with Gaming, I'd think that iOS games would be more geared towards families and multiplayer... but not at the same level as something like Halo on XBox, but more like the Nitendo Wii games.
Given this, I think the systems that need to worry is Playstation (they've been having their own issues) and Nitendo given iOS games could easily take on the Nitendo market.
However, what's to say that Nitendo couldn't port some more popular games to iOS? It would be a killer combo and would expand their revenue stream to what could be a huge competitor.
IMHO, I think Nitendo should be talking to Apple and make it happen.
edifyingGerbil
Apr 24, 06:44 PM
You and I have a terribly different definition of ruins I suppose. I consider a place ruins when its not even inhabitable.
Well if you were to look at world history, rather than just look at the world through a religious lens, you'd know the reasons for ongoing conflicts in much of that section of the world. Hint: it tends to do with imperialists powers tamperings.
Also, where is the biggest muslim population in the world? ;)
Most Islamic countries are not inhabitable by homosexuals or religious minorities, your mileage may vary.
The biggest muslim population right now is Indonesia, and they tried banning Christians from using Allah to describe their God. They're also trying to ban the Ahmadiyah sect...
I don't think France or Britain are responsible for Iran's strict implementation of Islamic law and ruthless persecution of dissidents, and to claim that they are responsible is insulting to Muslims because it implies they're far too reactionary to deal with anything using Reason. Just like people who want to ban qur'an burnings and blasphemy because they're afraid of how muslims might react. Are Muslims animals who are so easily goaded? No, they're human beings so they should be expected to act responsibly and not go on rampages at the slightest provocation.
Well if you were to look at world history, rather than just look at the world through a religious lens, you'd know the reasons for ongoing conflicts in much of that section of the world. Hint: it tends to do with imperialists powers tamperings.
Also, where is the biggest muslim population in the world? ;)
Most Islamic countries are not inhabitable by homosexuals or religious minorities, your mileage may vary.
The biggest muslim population right now is Indonesia, and they tried banning Christians from using Allah to describe their God. They're also trying to ban the Ahmadiyah sect...
I don't think France or Britain are responsible for Iran's strict implementation of Islamic law and ruthless persecution of dissidents, and to claim that they are responsible is insulting to Muslims because it implies they're far too reactionary to deal with anything using Reason. Just like people who want to ban qur'an burnings and blasphemy because they're afraid of how muslims might react. Are Muslims animals who are so easily goaded? No, they're human beings so they should be expected to act responsibly and not go on rampages at the slightest provocation.
Sayer
Apr 15, 09:28 AM
Maybe the parents and teachers could be more effective then ephemeral videos by "concerned celebrities" and tech ppl most didn't know even existed?
And its not just LGBT kids that get bullied, as was seen in that epic take down video from Australia.
THAT video shows how one should handle bullying IMHO. I bet that scrawny lil Jersey Shore wannabe won't mess with that kid anymore.
Weakness attracts aggression, because the aggressors look for weaker targets, because otherwise they get beat down.
And its not just LGBT kids that get bullied, as was seen in that epic take down video from Australia.
THAT video shows how one should handle bullying IMHO. I bet that scrawny lil Jersey Shore wannabe won't mess with that kid anymore.
Weakness attracts aggression, because the aggressors look for weaker targets, because otherwise they get beat down.
bryanc
Aug 29, 12:28 PM
I have to say, I am APPALLED by the irresponsible attitude of some people on this forum (and probably the world). Businesses, corporations, governments, AND individuals should all be behaving in a socially and environmentally responsible manner. This is in no way "anti-progress". When did you all gain the right to be so selfish, self-centred, and bigoted in your beliefs?
Hear, hear! What's up with all of you Apple Boosters? I think my Macs are great, and OS X is clearly the best OS on the planet today, but this report is very disappointing.
Rather than turning a blind eye to the irresponsible policies at Apple, and saying the Greenpeace is just anti-technology (they're big supporters of many innovative energy technologies, BTW), why not do what you can, as an Apple customer, to change the way Apple does business.
I've submitted feedback to Apple in the past about their wasteful packaging, and have been pleasantly surprised not only by their considerate replies, but the fact that they've changed their packaging to be less wasteful. Apple listens to their customers. If they know we care about the environment, they'll change their practices to be more sustainable.
I would like to have seen Apple respond to this as a challenge, by saying that they appreciate the constructive criticism and look forward to implementing changes in their practises and achieving top marks in the next Greenpeace analysis. If enough Apple customers make it clear that this should be a priority, it will become one.
Cheers
Hear, hear! What's up with all of you Apple Boosters? I think my Macs are great, and OS X is clearly the best OS on the planet today, but this report is very disappointing.
Rather than turning a blind eye to the irresponsible policies at Apple, and saying the Greenpeace is just anti-technology (they're big supporters of many innovative energy technologies, BTW), why not do what you can, as an Apple customer, to change the way Apple does business.
I've submitted feedback to Apple in the past about their wasteful packaging, and have been pleasantly surprised not only by their considerate replies, but the fact that they've changed their packaging to be less wasteful. Apple listens to their customers. If they know we care about the environment, they'll change their practices to be more sustainable.
I would like to have seen Apple respond to this as a challenge, by saying that they appreciate the constructive criticism and look forward to implementing changes in their practises and achieving top marks in the next Greenpeace analysis. If enough Apple customers make it clear that this should be a priority, it will become one.
Cheers
balamw
Apr 12, 11:07 AM
I don't care for the difficulty involved in sharing files across OS X/Windows/Linux, but that's hardly the fault of the Mac.
Stick shared files on a NAS or in the cloud. Problem solved.
Other nags:
-Requiring 3rd-party software to stay awake when closed
My last PC laptop decided not to go to sleep one one trip, I put it away in my backpack and when I took it out the battery was drained and the sleeve was discolored by the heat.
Plus, I just love trying to shut down or log off and be told that Windows needs to install updates. Right now? WTF! If I need to shut you down it's because I need to go. Now.
This is really better?
The hilarious hillarious way that iTunes and iPhones work. It's the same way on Windows, but I think they sacrificed function for increased integration.
Here I'm with you. I keep hoping that Apple will return to their senses and split iTunes up into iMusic, iVideo, iBooks, iApps, iSync etc... Maybe they will with a fully Cocoafied iTunes replacement in Lion.
B
Stick shared files on a NAS or in the cloud. Problem solved.
Other nags:
-Requiring 3rd-party software to stay awake when closed
My last PC laptop decided not to go to sleep one one trip, I put it away in my backpack and when I took it out the battery was drained and the sleeve was discolored by the heat.
Plus, I just love trying to shut down or log off and be told that Windows needs to install updates. Right now? WTF! If I need to shut you down it's because I need to go. Now.
This is really better?
The hilarious hillarious way that iTunes and iPhones work. It's the same way on Windows, but I think they sacrificed function for increased integration.
Here I'm with you. I keep hoping that Apple will return to their senses and split iTunes up into iMusic, iVideo, iBooks, iApps, iSync etc... Maybe they will with a fully Cocoafied iTunes replacement in Lion.
B
desdomg
Mar 18, 03:30 PM
This is great news - by removing the DRM I can play my music on any device I like. It is my music after all. The music industry needs to get used to the idea that you should really only sell a track once to each user, not one track for each device the user wants to play that track on.
Apple and the music industry in general will continue to rake in the $$$ regardless of this development - the real threat to the industry was always P2P, not sales.
Apple and the music industry in general will continue to rake in the $$$ regardless of this development - the real threat to the industry was always P2P, not sales.
bugfaceuk
Apr 9, 03:37 PM
Well done. Next you will be correcting me referring to my mother as mum.
Why would I do that?
Why would I do that?
MorphingDragon
May 2, 09:33 AM
Please, enlighten us how "Unix Security" is protecting you here, more than it would on Windows ? I'd be delighted to hear your explanation.
A lot of people trumpet "Unix Security" without even understanding what it means.
It means magical freaken Unicorns! Apple should replace the padlock with this. Much more effective at getting the message across.
http://www.gamefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/prototype_mercerunicorn-695x1024.jpg
(Yes you saw that correctly)
A lot of people trumpet "Unix Security" without even understanding what it means.
It means magical freaken Unicorns! Apple should replace the padlock with this. Much more effective at getting the message across.
http://www.gamefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/prototype_mercerunicorn-695x1024.jpg
(Yes you saw that correctly)
P-Worm
Sep 20, 07:22 AM
Well, the shape of the USB port suggests that it is for attaching another device to the iTV, and not for attaching the iTV to your Mac.
If the iTV doubles-up as an Airport Express, then maybe the USB port is for attaching a printer.
SL
Sorry, I was too vague. I meant that there is a lot of talk about how this thing can't be a DVR because there are only output jacks. I don't see why those component and audio jacks can't be both input and output.
P-Worm
If the iTV doubles-up as an Airport Express, then maybe the USB port is for attaching a printer.
SL
Sorry, I was too vague. I meant that there is a lot of talk about how this thing can't be a DVR because there are only output jacks. I don't see why those component and audio jacks can't be both input and output.
P-Worm
takao
Mar 16, 06:08 AM
And now France are making $3bn EUR a year from exporting electricity - also probably laughing heartily when they see at the price of oil.
good for them that means finally the EDF can pay back those dozens of billions euro they are in debt
;)
for comparison:
EdF: 150.000 employees: 65 billion revenue, 1 billion profit in 2010
the 2 big german energy companies
RWE: 70.000 employees: 50 billion of revenue, 3 billion of profit
E.ON: 85.000 employees: 92 billion revenue, 5 billion of profit
looking at the competition which focus less on nuclear power plants they are doing actually rather bad
good for them that means finally the EDF can pay back those dozens of billions euro they are in debt
;)
for comparison:
EdF: 150.000 employees: 65 billion revenue, 1 billion profit in 2010
the 2 big german energy companies
RWE: 70.000 employees: 50 billion of revenue, 3 billion of profit
E.ON: 85.000 employees: 92 billion revenue, 5 billion of profit
looking at the competition which focus less on nuclear power plants they are doing actually rather bad
Stella
Aug 29, 03:53 PM
Why not target the bigger fish first? Too hard a target? Microsoft in its CD replication factories, Dell in its TV/monitor and board manufacturing facilities surely put out hundreds of tons of more toxic wastes than all of Apples productions combined. Why not start there?
Really, I thought it was a survey that happened to find Apple not so Green amongst other companies. Anything that puts Apple in a bad light is automatically deemed as "Singling out Apple".
I for one welcome this kind of thing - it names and shames.
Really, I thought it was a survey that happened to find Apple not so Green amongst other companies. Anything that puts Apple in a bad light is automatically deemed as "Singling out Apple".
I for one welcome this kind of thing - it names and shames.
OllyW
Apr 28, 11:33 AM
Ahh, good catch! But that's before the iPad was even released... not sure what Al meant by his comment...
The launch of the iPad won't affect Apple's market share without the iPad included, which brings us back to Al's comment. ;)
The launch of the iPad won't affect Apple's market share without the iPad included, which brings us back to Al's comment. ;)
rasmasyean
Apr 22, 09:28 PM
Well, I can see why there would be "a lot" of atheists here from a "statistical" relation.
1) Mac users are prolly richer on average.
Let's be honest, many ppl consider Macs a rip-off, really. :D But if you have money to blow, who cares!
Wealth goes up with educational attainment. Numerous studies show this.
Educational attainment causes theism to go down. Numerous studies show this too.
This applies for young (not yet "educated") ppl from "wealthy" families as well because parents who don't take theism seriously are less likely to pass it on to children.
2) PRSI forum users are into "knowledge" and current events.
The internet is one big information gateway in general.
Those who are enthusiastic enough to use it for the purpose of extracting knowledge, are likely more educated (refer #1) and/or know much more about the world. The more you know about the world and your environment and other cultures (aka educated), the less your exposure is restricted to your immediate community. Therefore, you are more open to other religious as well as the idea of "not picking a side".
1) Mac users are prolly richer on average.
Let's be honest, many ppl consider Macs a rip-off, really. :D But if you have money to blow, who cares!
Wealth goes up with educational attainment. Numerous studies show this.
Educational attainment causes theism to go down. Numerous studies show this too.
This applies for young (not yet "educated") ppl from "wealthy" families as well because parents who don't take theism seriously are less likely to pass it on to children.
2) PRSI forum users are into "knowledge" and current events.
The internet is one big information gateway in general.
Those who are enthusiastic enough to use it for the purpose of extracting knowledge, are likely more educated (refer #1) and/or know much more about the world. The more you know about the world and your environment and other cultures (aka educated), the less your exposure is restricted to your immediate community. Therefore, you are more open to other religious as well as the idea of "not picking a side".
jctevere
Aug 28, 07:51 AM
I have consistently had problems with dropped calls ever since I switched from the original iPhone to the iPhone 3GS, they replaced my phone twice because of it. It would work for a while, but then drop calls, or get 10 call failures before actually placing a call, just to be dropped minutes later...
Yesterday I finally upgraded to 4.0.2 and it is even worse! Not only do I barely get any signal in my house, even when it shows I have a signal it still doesn't work. The problem seems to be when it goes into sleep mode it disconnects, because when I unlock it, a swarm of text messages and voice mails from missed calls I never received pour in...
I finally called up AT&T to see if there was anything they could do (maybe give me one of the femtocells to keep my 5 iPhone family plan happy (bill is almost $300 a month)... I was greeted by an unfriendly and unhelpful customer service agent. She pretty much told me there was nothing she could do (and when I asked about the femtocell she had no idea what it was, didn't even offer for me to buy it), and then she said its just the network, it happens to her all the time, I am probably in an area with poor coverage.
I told her to look it up on the AT&T coverage map it shows "best coverage" all around my house and where I live, pretty much most of Long Island. To which she said "coverage is not at all guaranteed", I flipped a bird and said "what the fu*k does that even mean, so I can get an at&t phone and pay for the service and you can't even guarantee I get service in any location around the world, even if you advertise it" to which she responded "yup". And I said, that's just ridiculous, I might as well switch to a carrier such as sprint or verizion (my parents have one of each) and they get service in our household. And then she said "Go ahead and switch". I don't remember exactly what I said after that, but she followed with other dumb remarks, such as, it could just be what your house is made of, or do you live underground? I'm sure I live in a cave lady... But I really can't bash all the Customer service agents at AT&T, some are great and very helpful.
Never the less, I was very pissed and disappointed with how AT&T is handling itself. Never have I had such poor customer service. When I had nextel and complained about their crappy service, they were very apologetic and offered me free stuff, and even if I never mentioned dropping them, but even hinted at the possibility, they would offer me upgrades and the works just to keep me... AT&T is just hit or miss, when the network works, its great and super fast, but if your in a high traffic or any other area, its the pits... Which is why I think people on the forums have such a hard time understanding these complaints. I bet the reason for the big change in satisfaction surveys has to do with geographic location. When I was in any other state but NY the service worked when it said I had service, but even then I could have full service, travel 10ft and get No service to show up on the iPhone, very spotty at best.
I am definitely going to switch my entire family plan over to verizion when our contracts are up in a year, I really hope they get the iPhone, if not, droid here I come! But to the rest of the community, has this ever happened to anyone else but me? Should I call back AT&T, at this point I would be willing to buy the femtocell, my phone doesn't work in passive mode, only gets service when I am on it and unlocked.
EDIT:
I actually looked up the femtocell, which is now called microcell to make sure I wasn't going crazy and to see if it is available in my area (which it is), and I saw a video that I just find hilarious! If you go to the following link and click on "increased signal strength" in the interactive video that loads on AT&T website for the microcell, it starts to play a video that actually shows how crappy their service is, with the guy having to hang out of the window to make a call... WTF? AT&T should fire whoever makes their commercials...
Check it out: http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/3gmicrocell/
Yesterday I finally upgraded to 4.0.2 and it is even worse! Not only do I barely get any signal in my house, even when it shows I have a signal it still doesn't work. The problem seems to be when it goes into sleep mode it disconnects, because when I unlock it, a swarm of text messages and voice mails from missed calls I never received pour in...
I finally called up AT&T to see if there was anything they could do (maybe give me one of the femtocells to keep my 5 iPhone family plan happy (bill is almost $300 a month)... I was greeted by an unfriendly and unhelpful customer service agent. She pretty much told me there was nothing she could do (and when I asked about the femtocell she had no idea what it was, didn't even offer for me to buy it), and then she said its just the network, it happens to her all the time, I am probably in an area with poor coverage.
I told her to look it up on the AT&T coverage map it shows "best coverage" all around my house and where I live, pretty much most of Long Island. To which she said "coverage is not at all guaranteed", I flipped a bird and said "what the fu*k does that even mean, so I can get an at&t phone and pay for the service and you can't even guarantee I get service in any location around the world, even if you advertise it" to which she responded "yup". And I said, that's just ridiculous, I might as well switch to a carrier such as sprint or verizion (my parents have one of each) and they get service in our household. And then she said "Go ahead and switch". I don't remember exactly what I said after that, but she followed with other dumb remarks, such as, it could just be what your house is made of, or do you live underground? I'm sure I live in a cave lady... But I really can't bash all the Customer service agents at AT&T, some are great and very helpful.
Never the less, I was very pissed and disappointed with how AT&T is handling itself. Never have I had such poor customer service. When I had nextel and complained about their crappy service, they were very apologetic and offered me free stuff, and even if I never mentioned dropping them, but even hinted at the possibility, they would offer me upgrades and the works just to keep me... AT&T is just hit or miss, when the network works, its great and super fast, but if your in a high traffic or any other area, its the pits... Which is why I think people on the forums have such a hard time understanding these complaints. I bet the reason for the big change in satisfaction surveys has to do with geographic location. When I was in any other state but NY the service worked when it said I had service, but even then I could have full service, travel 10ft and get No service to show up on the iPhone, very spotty at best.
I am definitely going to switch my entire family plan over to verizion when our contracts are up in a year, I really hope they get the iPhone, if not, droid here I come! But to the rest of the community, has this ever happened to anyone else but me? Should I call back AT&T, at this point I would be willing to buy the femtocell, my phone doesn't work in passive mode, only gets service when I am on it and unlocked.
EDIT:
I actually looked up the femtocell, which is now called microcell to make sure I wasn't going crazy and to see if it is available in my area (which it is), and I saw a video that I just find hilarious! If you go to the following link and click on "increased signal strength" in the interactive video that loads on AT&T website for the microcell, it starts to play a video that actually shows how crappy their service is, with the guy having to hang out of the window to make a call... WTF? AT&T should fire whoever makes their commercials...
Check it out: http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/3gmicrocell/
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